Re: Response to Gaga fan whom I actually have grown to like.
Thanks again for responding, Chris. There are just a few more points to follow up with on my end.
“It is not okay to be offended when people make a joke about suicide, then shade Madonna using suicide (see pic)”
Are you sure this means what you think it means? It seems kind of farfetched to connect Gaga’s tweet with Madonna’s invite to Katy Perry. From my perspective, it’s just about her choreographer being pleased with rehearsals. Were these tweets even on the same day? I’m not sure. But I am sure that some crazy monsters came to the conclusion that this was shade directed towards Madonna, like Gaga would be so obvious and hashtag it in her tweet. This is the kind of thing that has become popular in the fan base, because Madonna has become so hated and a lot of them want Gaga to be this “Queen” who ~shades and is diva-ish in the vain of Mariah Carrey. Meh. I just don’t see it.
“I use Madonna in my blog for a few reasons. Yes I am a fan but that is not the main reason. To understand why I use Madonna’s career as a base point, as yourself these questions. “Who paved the way” “Who’s career do most female pop stars open admire and say they want”
This is a good point. I guess if you’re going to debate whether Gaga is a worthy pop star, comparing her to the best is only logical. But she is more than a pop star, she’s also musician and a songwriter - so comparing her to Madonna on those levels more often or to others who also fit the bill would make more sense to me. But I don’t blame you for relying on what you already know best to answer all of the anon questions you receive.
“Another reason is that Lady gaga fans are continuously and constantly messaging me with “Lady gaga is the new queen of pop” “Madonna should retire and die” “Lady gaga slays Madonna. How can I not use Madonna when Lady gaga’s own fan base are the major contributors to the comparisons?”
You’re not going to like this, but in my opinion, Madonna’s own behaviour after the release of Born this Way is what started the fire in this fight between fan-bases for the Queen of Pop title and fuels the comparisons between her and Gaga in the media.
Her “reductive” comment was the most talked about piece of her interview with ABC and there is a reason why those gifs of Madonna taking a sip of tea are so popular - this moment is an A-grade example of shade. Madonna’s fans and supporters say she was just referring to the song and Gaga’s fans say she was referring to Gaga as an artist. I also think she was referring to Gaga as an artist and its because of the way in which she didn’t seem to want to make the distinction in the interview and how she quickly ended it with “look it up”. On a regular day, I would have loved this shade, but I don’t find it becoming of Madonna, with all of her esteem in this business, to go on the attack of a young artist in such a way that was really unexpected. Prior to Born This Way, it seemed like they had a decent and friendly relationship and they both had praised each other many times before. The contrast in her attitude towards Gaga was apparent to everyone after this interview, which made it a good story to write about.
"I’m a very big fan of Born This Way and I’m glad I could help her write it" - Madonna (x)
No, she didn’t help Gaga write Born this Way, and she wouldn’t be able to make such a statement without winning a lawsuit or settling with Gaga out of court. She’s plainly stating that Gaga stole from her when no such lawsuit or settlement took place. It is immature and unprofessional behaviour, which of course brought a lot of the media’s attention again. Just for conversation, do you think Madonna would have won such a lawsuit? I don’t and I don’t think Madonna did either. Otherwise, all the signs here point to what would have been a very public legal battle.
Regarding the BTW/EY/SNM Mash-up: She is enticing her fans and reminding the public who’s Queen, while angering little monsters for belittling Gaga with such a large audience. She’s never addressed Gaga “copying” her in any way before, but after Born this Way she feels free to make all of these claims. It’s really cunning and immature. And when she told the crowd “Imitation is the best form of flattery”? Pure stan-bait and attention seeking behaviour, in my opinion.
This made Gaga look petty and silly… like she’s the one who caused the feud and the one who doesn’t want to make up. But Madonna was still practically bullying her with this stunt. If she actually wanted to invite Gaga to perform with her, she should have done so privately to avoid making Gaga appear this way. And I believe she must of known Gaga wouldn’t be able to do it, considering they were both touring in different continents at this time. I feel like she was being very manipulative here and it really lowered my opinion of her.
I’ve never seen, read, or hear Gaga claim that she is better than Madonna and nor have I seen her try to compare her success to Madonna’s. I’ve only seen her respond to comparisons by saying she was flattered by them. And after each of these incidents, Gaga never said a word to entice her fans to compare her with Madonna. She’s kept her mouth shut this whole time, so if there’s anyone to blame its Madonna and her hold over the media.
“I have said on my blog and to many people, I recognize lady gaga’s contributions and I am grateful for her work that REINFORCES the issues at hand. I fight against the delusion that, she is paving the way. She isn’t.”
“Paving the way”, may not be the right way to describe what Gaga is doing. But I would say she’s definitely a leader in this generation of new artists. As popular and inspiring as Madonna is, she belongs to an older generation and we need new faces to to be leaders on current issues; People who speak to and affect a larger audience that wouldn’t be as inclined to listen to someone from another era. It sounds ridiculous, but that’s how our society works. Gaga has brought a lot of attention to certain issues that I’m sure wouldn’t have been on the minds of her contemporaries had she not done so much public work and made them so important. Katy Perry, Ke$ha, Nicki Minaj etc. What were these girls doing before?
“She makes a Mockery of bulling because she surrounds herself with people that hate, allows them to hate and then tells the world she’s against it. It is pretty interesting how everyone around her, in her team, says negative things about Madonna - and they do it very comfortably, at ease. If my boss were so serious about her message of “love and respect” as she supposedly is, I would not go around saying negative things about other people that are associated with her, like her partners do. Isn’t that strange? Fishy?”
She doesn’t have control over her friends, nor should she. DJ White Shadow is a grown man, much older than Gaga and has a mind of his own. Same with Lady Starlight, who I’m sure would feel the same way about Gaga if she wasn’t best friends with her. I bolded that because you have to consider how emotionally attached they are to their friend. If I feel like someone is messing with my friends in any way, I get really defensive and I turn into something similar to the Incredible Hulk. I can’t help it, but I always put the people I care about first and I don’t think this is any different.
Because of this crap I’m sure Gaga spoke to them privately about not speaking out in such a way anymore because I haven’t heard or seen them do it since. This followed closely after those tweets from DJWS and Lady Starlight: http://twitpic.com/9vkodo
Terry Richardson is just a loser and Perry Meek is a sassy man who most likely cant help himself. One thing all of these people have in common is that they care about Gaga and they probably don’t like Madonna’s attitude towards her. I understand the emotions behind it.
Also, she has many close friends who love and respect Madonna to a large extent. Someone named Darian Darling is one of them as well as Breedlove, who was the Born Brave Bus ambassador. If Gaga is so bullyish and anti-madonna, you would think she would have cut ties with them already, but they’re still close. And trust me, she could cut ties easily. These are her friends from her early days in NYC and even though she’s always working or in some different country, she continuously makes an effort to be there for them and brings them along to do exciting things with her. She’s not that petty and ridiculous.
Do you ever see Madonna’s creative team Bagging out Lady gaga?
Yep. Have read anything from the Dolce and Gabbana boys recently? They’ve been at it for a while. Also, I’m not sure if Madonna or her team were behind this, but a large offer was supposedly made out to Mark Kanemura to dance for her after the video of him accidentally hitting Gaga with a pole and giving her a concussion spread online. C’mon, that’s just mean. Despite this story never being confirmed, Mark’s display of disdain towards Madonna on his twitter after incident was enough confirmation for me.
And I’m sorry to use this against your argument, but I read on your blog that Madonna’s team offered free tickets to those who run PawsDownLittleMonsters. If this is true, it’s kind of concerning. That site may clear up some arguments that your side has, but there’s a lot of name-calling and accusations on there as well. She’s not exactly encouraging kind behavior.
“But on that, Why did lady gaga call it a mockery of her work?
The video on tour Madonna shows in her show while she sings her mash up is a very precise and artistic graphic and musical depiction of her work.
Little monsters being fed prepackaged food that embodies aspects of Madonna and David Bowie. Madonna’s medley (EXPRESS YOURSELF / BORN THIS WAY / SHE’S NOT ME) is not a mockery of her work, it is a statement on what the critics around the world have reported.”
I’m not going to lie - I hated this so much when I first saw it. I have a pretty decent understanding of where Gaga gets her imagery from and what everything means in their original context and in the context of her music and performances. If I don’t, then I’m immediately moved to look it up, which is a part of the reason why I like Gaga so much. And this criticism is surprising coming from Madonna, considering a lot of her work has been heavily inspired by previous icons, just like Gaga’s.
I recommend that you check out a book called “The Educated Imagination” by Northrop Frye, which highlights many important concepts in literature. I’m not trying to criticize you at all, its basically one of my favorite books ever and its so eloquent and easy to read… I’ve leant it out to everyone I know. Anyhow, in one of the chapters, Fry makes the point that people cannot create things that don’t already exist. We create and adapt from what we already know. This isn’t a new concept and its been echoed by important figures in the past:
“Only those with no memory insist on their originality.” – Coco Chanel
“The merit of originality is not novelty; it is sincerity” – Thomas Carlyle
“It’s not where you take things from—it’s where you take them to.” – Jean-Luc Godard
Another prime example to me is Quentin Tarantino. He is an auteur and one of the greatest directors of all time, but he also steals a lot from previous films and combines all of his stolen ideas into something completely new and exciting. And he’s not ashamed to admit it. Despite his work not being 100% original, nobody can do what he does. I’ve always considered Madonna and Gaga to be artists in the same vein.
“She has NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT, considering that she has presented herself like this:
Now how is that any different from this?
I’m sure both Madonna and Gaga weren’t “copying” with these images, but referencing them instead. People should know that Madonna’s hair and her dress were Marilyn Monroe’s - just as people should surely know that Gaga’s cone bra is in fact Madonna’s and that Gaga’s curly blonde hair is also Madonna’s, which is also Marilyn Monroe’s. lol Its not difficult and it isn’t the artists’ fault if some of the public is ignorant and doesn’t know these things.
The same goes for Bowie’s lightning bolt. Why shouldn’t she be allowed to use it if it inspires her? Everyone knows that imagery belongs to Bowie, and I’m sure she would be counting on everyone to know that because otherwise the meaning of it is lost. She was new and wanted to make herself known in the industry as an educated pop star and a fan of performance art, which is essentially what Bowie’s lightning bolt represents. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if she liked the original meaning of it, which was in Bowie’s words: “the duality of the mind”. The woman loves duality! “I am half a Lady and half a Gaga”, “I live halfway between fantasy and reality at all times” etc. She only gets tattoos on the left side of her body and she is constantly going on about the duality of fame, which was also the theme of her perfume. She’s obsessed.
I don’t see her take credit where it isn’t due and she has always given people such as Madonna and Bowie a considerable amount of credit for inspiring her entire career.
“I could list the other people she has made fun of. Die antwoord, The song “cake like lady gaga” is about a fashion critic that gave her a bad review. If you tell the world you are against bullying then actively participate in it, that’s making a mockery out of it.”
But did you see Die Antwoord’s music video where they parodied her? They decided to personally attack her because she liked their music and offered them a pretty good job. I would have lost so much respect for Gaga if she didn’t stick up for herself in this case. And have you read about Cathy Horwyn? That woman is a terrible critic and a bully, especially to one of Gaga’s friends, and I’m sure Gaga got tired of everyone shit during this period. After all, she’s only human.
“Many famous celebs from Kelly O to a famous gay writer to Madonna’s manager guy have reached out to lady gaga and asked her to intervene when he fans Bully, yet she remains silent.”
She always tells her fans, especially at her shows, to love and not hate, to stop bullying and to be kind to each other. It’s her basic and underlying message that she always carries out. But Gaga doesn’t have control over losers on twitter and she realized this a while ago when idiots, who were supposedly in her own fan base, were making fun of a child who had committed suicide. She told them to grow up and to direct their insults at her, but it only made it worse and the trending topics went higher. Twitter is a special kind of beast that celebrities need to be careful with. Kelly Osbourne was retweeting and responding to all of the hate messages and giving fools all the attention they wanted. From the way she continuously talked about it in the media almost a year later, I get the feeling that she liked the attention too. Getting hate and threats on twitter is terrible, but it’s nothing new to celebrities and certainly something Gaga has to deal with too, especially when they’re directed at her family. But she has the sense to not respond to it and fuel it. Kelly should have realized that.
So many people make it out to be Gaga’s responsibility to stop hate and to teach people. What more can she do than spread her message at her shows and through her foundation? She can’t change people’s behaviour with a single tweet. She doesn’t have that power and Guy Oseary knows it. He was just putting more slack on her back.
“Her past about bring thrown into a trash can, is fabricated. All of her school teachers, all of her school friends have been interviewed and they are all consistant with the same thing. She was not bullied in school. Lady gaga is a product of her record label. She is a contrived pop star designed to make you feel special.”
So you take their word for it over hers? Are they even credible? It seems like the kind of story any media outlet would love to disapprove, right? And how would they know about this particular incident anyways? Apparently it happened at a pizzeria with boys from a different school. And I’m sure her mother wouldn’t have fabricated an incident where racial and homophobic slurs where written all over her trashed locker. Gaga had never mentioned that before, but her mother clearly remembered it during her interview with Oprah. I know you don’t have a high opinion of Gaga or her family, but there is no reason not to believe them. (I’ll get into their ~terrible republican history later).
“She is a contrived pop star designed to make you feel special.”
You can that about her story, if you’d like. Claim that she’s lying about her history. That’s fine. But you’re failing to consider the fact that she puts her money where her mouth is and the fact that many of her actions are not easy to contrive. Like I mentioned in my first response - the amount of time she spends with fans is ridiculous. She’s always listening to them and supporting them. There are too many stories to share and videos that I can show you…I’m not sure where to start and I don’t think you’d want to go through any of them. Also you have to consider how much work goes into those public speeches and appearances. She’s done many and I know you believe it’s a gimmick to help sales now that she is silent on the issues she usually supports. But think about how much criticism she’s been receiving from the very group of people whom she’s trying to help. Everyone tells her to “back off” and to “stop putting her face all over the movement” and when does, she receives your criticism. She can’t win.
“I also have to respectfully disagree with you. Mental Health should not be addressed by someone that is not equipped with the tools to deal with it.”
I should clear this up. I didn’t mean that she personally addresses mental health – I was referring to her foundation and the born brave bus. She has professionals on board, who also do not address mental health or do any sessions of any kind, but help the kids figure out ways of coping with stress and direct them to organizations and groups that can help them. That kind of environment encourages kids to be active, seek help and take care of themselves. It brings awareness to the importance of having a healthy state of mind.
“Lady gaga is open and honest about her drug use, she is open and honest about suffering from an eating disorder. I personally think that she has other mental conditions we don’t know about because she’s constantly crying. If lady gaga is still suffering symptoms of a mental health condition she is in no place to be helping people with Mental Health. She’s not equipped, a great example of this was her Body revolution. I believe she had good intentions with this, but did she think it through? did she think about internet predators when she decided to encourage her teen fan base to post half nude pics of themselves. It’s just not good enough however good her intentions may be.”
I agree. That wasn’t the smartest thing to do but I think she was just being naïve. I don’t think she just didn’t care that such things could happen because she hired a team to take care of the website when it got launched. They take down anything inappropriate and protect the kids on there from predators and other dangerous things. She didn’t think through how some kids can be a danger to themselves and take things too far.
“The born this way bus in addition to giving out free unsold tickets, did not hold any mental health sessions on board. It contained local psychologists that took appointments if you wanted one, for a later date where you would have to pay for your session.”
Other than “did not hold any mental health sessions on board”, none of this true. Jemuel DaSilva is not a reliable source. :|
The Born Brave Bus did not give out free tickets – he created fake twitter accounts to source that one. And local psychologists did not take appointments or ask for pay. There were mental health professionals that directed kids to resources in their communities and held group chats.
“Considering that Gaga is the self proclaimed Joan of Arc for gay rights, then why the hell is her foundation teaming up with a company that has been criticised for it’s lack of human rights toward the LGBT community in 2010?”
But she’s never proclaimed such a thing. Quite the opposite actually:
You provided me with a link that has a rating of Office Depot’s support of human rights. You may be a little upset by its rank in 2010, but their current ranking is 100/100. Therefore, Gaga’s foundation is teaming up with a company that has been criticized for its lack of human rights toward the LGBT community in 2010, but is now praised for its apparent full support of human rights towards the LGBT community. Why shouldn’t they team up together?
And yes, there are a lot of donations being made out to the republican party. Mostly by the same woman and a few others. You make a valid point here… that party consists of some of the most bigoted and ignorant politicians who work actively to take away the rights of minorities in the country. However, gay rights have never been a democratic vs. republican thing. No president (democratic or republican) had come out in support of same sex marriage until Barack Obama did in 2012. Therefore I don’t know how you can equate being republican to being anti-gay marriage. Especially when you only have proof that her grandfather, father and mother voted republican up until 2008. If they voted republican again in 2012, after Obama announced his support, then I would agree and think that you have a strong point here. But I’m still not convinced.
And just for further illustration, a republican senator has recently come out in support of gay marriage – mostly due to his gay son. This doesn’t mean that he’s now a democratic senator. He’s just a republic senator with different views from the majority of his party. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/04/02/mark-kirk-becomes-second-gop-senator-to-back-gay-marriage/
Regarding the sources you gave for the poor ticket sales – thanks for these… I guess you’re right. She didn’t do very well sometimes and still told everyone she sold out. It’s all really confusing to me because I’ve always thought that an artist puts only a certain amount of tickets for sale, regardless of the venue’s capacity. If they sell all the tickets they want to and then incrementally add more, then wouldn’t it still be a sell out? I’m not sure about these things because I’ve never really cared for knowing how many tickets an artist can sell – its just not on my radar. But I’ll believe you because you seem to know what you’re talking about.
At this point, I just don’t think its fair to claim that she is lying about her hip.
You’re forgetting that the tour still lost 25 million dollars, despite only selling 50% of the capacity for each venue with plenty of time to sell more. I really don’t see the logic behind faking such a thing as a torn hip ligament to cancel only 22 remaining shows that were going to gross that much money. Plus, that jet LiveNation gave her is not exactly a sign of a failed tour.
It has been known for quite sometime in the fan base, even during the days of the Monster Ball, that Gaga has issues with chronic and arthritic pain. And Synovitis is one of the leading causes of her condition. Plus, wouldn’t it be so much easier to say that she’s got a terrible case of laryngitis or needs some kind of throat surgery?
“But that’s not whats happening at all. Lady gaga is Repeatedly and constantly going on Twitter and glorifying getting drunk with her friends night after night. Especially when Gaga does so through the tool she directly communicates with her fans. Going on national television and telling the reporter that she smokes pot (an illegal drug) and drinks whiskey to feel more comfortable to write her music IS not only promoting the use of an illegal drug, but also acknowledging how fake she is.
Gaga is all about “you were born this way”, “love yourself”, “I’ll set you free monsters!” and ”be yourselves”, but the only way she can be herself is when she is drunk and high. At least, that’s how her music is “created” - and by created, I mean, stolen from other people.
Madonna at least is always sober and alert. Even when she wrote a psychedelic song about “drugs”, she told the reporter “it’s drug music, without drugs”. In fact, Madonna’s relationship with drugs is the opposite of Lady Gaga’s.
While Lady gaga openly promotes the use of illegal drugs and intoxication during her recording sessions, and the use of cocaine when she’s lonely, Madonna is the complete opposite.”
Ah well, some people are idiots. I’ve never heard Gaga use those words in a positive way. She explained in an interview that drugs were an escape and made her feel less lonely, while they simultaneously wrecked her life. And she warned anyone watching that it was never worth it for her. That user from twitter is just a fucking loser… what else can I say?
Regarding her tweets – I agree to a certain extent. She can be really thoughtless and not very bright. But I find that most of her fan base (at least the fans I’m aware of online and those that I interact with from time to time) understands her factious sense of humor and we’re all well acquainted with her story and her stance on drugs already. I think she knows this as well and maybe over estimates it.
She’s been very open lately on littlemonsters.com. She’s told everyone she only lets herself have 2 drinks a week. We’ll see how long that holds up for, but I’m hoping she sticks to it. I really used to hate how much she would talk about drinking with her friends. At this point in time she was with her ex-boyfriend, who’s a notorious and proud drinker. I don’t think she was in the right state of mind in that relationship…but I’ll end my argument here because I don’t like talking about her personal life or judging it.
I don’t really see the point in comparing Gaga’s drug use to Madonna’s, but I’ll just add that Madonna has actually been vocal about using drugs in the past, i.e. her Rock and Roll Hall of Fame speech. Plus, industry parties in the 80’s had copious amounts cocaine being served in huge silver platters; everyone did drugs – I’m not holding it against her. I’m sure she’s been healthy for quite some time now, but according to her, she would have been around the same age as Gaga when she was taking drugs. Don’t you think someone who is half Madonna’s age should be spared the comparisons, at least in this area? People need experience and maturity to help them grow out of these habits and Madonna has had quite enough time to do so.
Thanks a lot for your concern and support. You’re really sweet. I’m all too aware that I’m the only one who can really help myself - I just find a lot of comfort in music and Gaga is one of many artists who can make me happy and inspired. And I’m just going to ignore those videos, because wtf? I haven’t seen those before and don’t want to ever again. :/ I could send you some of my favorite videos, but I don’t think you’ll care or see them in the same light as I do. But that’s just different strokes for different folks. :P
I really hope this wasn’t a pain to read.